Centuar keels.

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dombrown
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Centuar keels.

Post by dombrown »

Keelbolts bolts
Keelbolts bolts
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Hi. Been continuing my search for a centuar within my budget and have been looking at a 1973 type A interior. I am not sure if the keels have been reinforced etc. I have been trying find pictures of what to look for. Have taken a pic of what I see, I was wondering if anyone can offer thoughts and advice on what I should be looking for. Thanks
Jolly Roger
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by Jolly Roger »

In your quest to buy a good Centaur, I trust you have read the good wiki article on buying a Centaur.
http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/wester ... ADVICE.pdf

Sorry I cannot give direct advice on the keel reinforcement, but I doubt if there are more than a few that were not reinforced by now. I would check for rust stains around the keel bolts to see any weepage. Any reinforcement would involve laying extra layers of glassfibre mat, so check the finish of the glasswork looking for edges of a sheet. Westerly glasswork was very neat, so if rough could suggest reinforcement. However a good laminator would have made a good finish, so this is not a good rule to follow. There is no easy way to check, but if the boat is out of the water you can check to see if there is any deflection in the line of the hull around the keel stubs.

Looking at your photo I would question why the black paint was applied. I would have repainted with some Danboline bilge paint. The glasswork looks neat and tidy, but the rust filled crack on the lower side of the bolts would need close checking. It may just be a shallow crack in some excess resin that has gathered dirt. Check for this along each keel, if you find any elsewhere, you would need a good surveyor for advice if you wish to buy.

Hope this is some help.
Roger
Concerto Fulmar FR38
Photos at http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Conce ... 2/library/
dombrown
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by dombrown »

Many thanks. The bolt area has been covered with some kind of dark resin so I had put the discolouration down to that, but worth a closer look. It's a 2k boat so I am viewing it all with an open mind but at the same I don't want to spend the equivalent of a boat ready to go in getting this one up to standard.
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by Jolly Roger »

For a boat at a 2k price, I would be more concerned by the condition of the engine, the rigging and sails. They will all cost considerably more than the potential cost of a keel fix. The boat is now over 40 years old and the keels look sound, so it would not concern me unduly.
Roger
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dombrown
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by dombrown »

Engine I am told is the original, Volvo MD2B no indication if it's been reconditioned only told about annual service, etc. I am told runs well but she is out of water at mo. Mast original and rigging is stainless changed 1998. I read somewhere that if you can turn the flywheel by hand one complete revolution engine may be low compression and tired, I did try this and could turn it all the way with some degree of mild effort. So this to is of concern. Plus an osmosis blisters issue below water line I was planning to sort myself, thus low sale price of the boat.
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by Jolly Roger »

The engine should be able to be started for a couple of minutes. If you cannot start it, then the engine is in need of an expensive repair or replacement. If it starts then the colour of the smoke will indicate any problems.

Sometimes white smoke only appears when the engine starts cold, going away as the engine warms up. When this occurs, it is typically due to deposits around the piston rings. ... Black smoke indicates poor combustion of the diesel fuel, and blue smoke is a sign of oil burning within the engine.

Rigging of this age will need to be changed as it is well past its useful life.

I would not be too concerned with the osmosis as this is a relatively easy fix and should not have done any real damage to the strength of the hull.

I hope you understand that it will cost a lot more to fix this boat up than the cost to buy. If you can find one in better condition for 5 to 6K, you will save yourself a lot of time and money.
Roger
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by aquaplane »

For a 2 grand boat you can replace the engine and not be out of pocket, and you have a new engine for the duration of your ownership.

But if the sails are shot that's another 2 or 3 K.

Spray hood is £1 K.

Dodgers and sail cover another £500.

Upholstery I haven't priced but could be 2 to 3 K.

Instruments, it depends but you need a VHF, compass and depth + GPS as minimum. For vanity (considering it's a 2k boat) you could add plotter, radar and AIS so you will have a very big bill.

The head lining is also something which is expensive to replace professionally or painful/messy to do yourself but unless it's really bad you could probably live with it.
Bob.
Centaur now sold. Boating from Tarbert.
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by CorporalJ »

My previous boat was a centaur that dried out. The keels were well braced by sections of thick wood glassed in professionally across the void where the keel bolts are (port to starboard).. There were about 7 or 9 stiffners per side if memory serves me. A friend who had one had the keel rip out as they were not stiffened. You will no doubt need a survey on the boat before getting insured and this may highlight whether this work has been done.
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by dombrown »

Thank you for the thoughts and advice so far. I understand she has spent a good deal of her life in a Marina berth so would imagine she will not have had too much of the stresses of a drying mooring. Many things are already in place such as spray hood dodgers etc. So this offers a saving. Sadly I think the rigging is likely to be a big expense. I plan to revisit the boat on Monday and will have a good look around the keel bolts area on both sides.
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by TyroSailor »

If you need the standing rigging doing and are within reach of Portsmouth, Paul Cochrane at XW Rigging (Haslar Marina) is the man. His father designed the rigging for several of the Westerlies (I think) and he really knows what he's talking about. And he can just supply the gear or string it all up for you too.
Experience: That which would have been most useful five minutes before you acquired it.

Steve
Tyro (Centaur 1361)
at Southampton
mikebuggy
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by mikebuggy »

As previously stated, if your keel support area has been reinforced internally you will see a number of webs glassed across each of the keel roots internally. Search on this website in the searchbox (eg Centaur keel reinforcement) and you will find articles by various people on this, including Roger Ball who has posted photos.
Support the other views: the boat seems like a bargain, but only if you are prepared to work at it. The rigging and a decent engine WILL end up setting you back around £8K, perhaps down to £5K if eng 2nd hand and you do the work yourself. You will usually need a new shaft, bearing, coupling, and propellor too.
If its in reasonable condition you may be able to recommission and keep the older engine, but it may be very expensive to do so. VP spares for older engines are notoriously so. You will also end up with an engine that is noisier and less efficient than later types.
You may also need to replace/update navaids/electronics too.
Worth a punt perhaps, just as long as you realise that paying more for a boat with a newer engine and better gear may often be the cheaper deal, and you will get afloat sooner!
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by dombrown »

Many thanks one and all. Some very useful insights offered and real food for thought.
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by dombrown »

By way of update folks. I thing I may have to abandon the westerly in question. I have now been to see her again had a good dig around and look at the keel bolts. There is evidence of rust to some backing plates and some rusty dampness in one part, not water as such but leaves wet rusty deposit on fingers. This would seem to suggest there is leaking around the bolts. If this means indeed the beginings of leaking then it would mean i guess a need to drop and re bed the keels. This then sky rockets the costs and the boat even though very cheap and far better than some I have been to see over the last few days( and the people were asking a lot more for), I think will be uneconomic. But what do you folks think? Pics attached
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Hillary
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by Hillary »

One thought might be to join a yacht club with a hoist that can lift the boat out of the water and bring it ashore. That will save you several hundreds of pounds if you do have to re-bed the keels. The Westerly Forum is brilliant but so is propping up the yacht club bar with other centaur owners who may have advice and strong arms to offer.
Moonshine, Centaur CR1149
giles watling
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Re: Centuar keels.

Post by giles watling »

As an owner of a 'A' layout 1971 Centaur, I am used to seeing bolts looking like this. My keels were rebedded five years ago and still look like this.

One of the definitive tests is to have the boat lifted, measure accurately between the keels (doesn't matter where, just so long as you use the same place), have the boat put down again so that her weight is on the keels, measure again and if there's a difference, you've got a problem.

A little weeping through the keel joint is not, I understand, serious in itself. Just keep mopping up now and then.

Hope this helps

Giles
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