Ripped Genoa roller

Yoramy
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Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Yoramy » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:10 pm

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Hi
The block running through line for opening and rolling the Genoa had ripped from the deck. Part of the screw is still inside the deck.
I'm not sure what material was this screw threaded into and if it was a later addition or made at the Westerly shipyard, glassed into the deck.
I wonder if I can drill a new hole next to the ripped screw fitting and if the new block I'll get will screw in there with its threads.
I'll be grateful for any info
Thank you!
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Yoramy
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Yoramy » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:12 pm

Westerly Conway 1979 ketch

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philipstevens
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by philipstevens » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:32 pm

Others will come up with good suggestions, but in the first instance, give Westerly Spares/Trafalgar Yacht Services a call. They both worked for Westerly before its demise. http://www.westerly-yachts.co.uk/advanc ... ws&x=0&y=0

Go to the source of information.
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Jolly Roger » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:04 pm

This fitting is through bolted. The nut should have a large penny washer and this would have been glassed over. All fittings were fitted to the deck before the deck was fitted. To ensure no leaks, all fittings were glassed over by Westerly, also the deck joint.
Roger
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Yoramy » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:18 pm

Thank you for the information! indeed this fitting is not visible from the cabin.
So I guess I can not pull the rest of that ripped bolt out. I can only drill a new hole and fit a new roller ? I would be drilling into solid glass? Would I then need a threaded bolt? Would the threads catch into the glass? Would it require resin to set it in the hole? If so , what type? And how should I fill the existing torn bolt hole?
Thanks

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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by philipstevens » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:02 pm

Find out exactly where it is below deck, and probably behind head-lining, and you should find a glassed over bolt/nut head below deck. Dremel the "glass" away and "drift" the bolt through into the cabin area. As JR said, there should be a penny washer, or similar plate, spreading the load.

Replace with the same size fixture, and use plenty of Sikaflex or similar Polysulphide sealant http://www.westerly-yachts.co.uk/advanc ... nt&x=0&y=0 to make a good water-proof seal between deck and fixture.

From the look of your deck fitting, it could have been fitted with an A2 nut or even a non-SS nut, to cause so much corrosion. Then again, SS will corrode when deprived of oxygen.
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Yoramy » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:45 pm

I checked inside the cabin where this fitting should be and it seems this is totally glassed over and covered with fiber mat. it is too close to the outside of the hull. There are no ceiling boards in the area. Plus, the area makes a hollow sounds when knocked on, which may indicate extensive rot. I'm afraid that it may require more than dremeling and will turn into extensive repairs , matting and glassing.
Would it work if I drill a new hole from above, in as close as possible an angle of the original , and glass the fitting in?
Is this area solid glass? Plastic?
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Thank you

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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Jolly Roger » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:13 am

Westerly usually used a marine plywood pad to strengthen the balsa cored deck for all deck fittings. It is possible that water may have entered the plywood core and caused some rot, but do not panic. I would remove the fibreglass from the underside of the deck, including the penny washer. You will be able to see if the core is rotten.If so, then the easiest way to fix it is to spin a small Allen key in an electric drill to remove the rotten material. You can dry the core out using antifreeze, after sealing the botton of the hole. Leave to dry for several days in the current weather. Reseal the bottom of the hole and then fill from the top with a thickened epoxy resin. See bonding studs in this link - http://www.westsystem.com/ss/bonding-hardware/ Once set a new hole can be drilled through the epoxy and the deck will be reinforced to take the loadings of the fitting. This is an easy job you can do yourself.
Roger
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Yoramy » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:12 am

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I chiseled a hole in the cabin and exposed the screw. Around was foam. That was the hollow sound. The washer and but are in good condition. I pushed out the ripped screw from above. It came out easily. It's upper threads which in the section which was inside the deck is covered in some epoxy / resin material. I welded a new screw to the fitting. It fits perfectly , and screws into the hole , which was not damaged , with a millimeter or so play to the sides.
I don't think I need to refill the hole and drill a new one. Probably only add some filler in the hole before I place the newly welded fitting in. However:
Which filler should I use ?
Will the filler set the screw in irreversibly, meaning it could not be replaced if needed in the future, the way I did now?
What type of foam should I use for refilling the hole I made in the ceiling ?
Should I then lay mat and resin on that chiseled hole in the cieling?
Is the resin in the picture suitable ?
Many thanks
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Yoramy
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Yoramy » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:15 am

I've got tubes of Hempel epoxy filler base 35259 and curing agent 95250
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Jolly Roger » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:10 pm

The Hempel epoxy filler will be what you should use. To stop it sticking to the fitting, just apply a thin layer of grease on the threads and bottom of the fitting. It would be worth removing some of the foam and filling it with the epoxy filler to strengthen the deck from being crushed by the loading of the fitting. Just leave the underside smoothed, do not bother glassing over the nut head as you should be able to get to the bolt to check it is tight and leak free.

What you have done so far is looking good and now should be easy to complete.
Roger
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Yoramy » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:22 pm

Good to know my Hempel Epoxy will do. Should I fill the mixture into the hole from above into the hole and then insert the greased fitting screw? The foam is unattached to the fitting screw below deck . It seems to be just a filling between deck and cabin ceiling and was easy to clear in order to see the screw . I don't think the foam and epoxy are interchangeable . Once fitting is In place , I really don't want to leave a hole in the cabinet ceiling. Any suggestion of how the cieling should be covered if not by mat and resin ?
Thank you.

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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Jolly Roger » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:22 pm

Grease the fitting and place in the hole. Then trowel the epoxy filler from beneath the deck. Once the epoxy is set, remove the fitting and seal with your usual mastic (e.g. Sikaflex 291i or CT1)

Your comment about the foam puzzles me. From your photos the foam is under the layer of fibreglass. It may be the foam is just used as a support to fill the raised toe rail when it was covered with fibreglass. The deck should be reinforced for the side loading for the rolling headsail as it will spread the loading over more of the deck.

There is no reason not to cover the underside to match it to how it used to look by using fibreglass. However I would suggest you wait until the fitting has been fully tested before covering, just to check it is fully watertight. The only alternative would be to use a foam backed vinyl as fitted in lots of Westerly's (available from Hawke House).
Roger
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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Yoramy » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:10 am

I'm not sure I understand.
The epoxy filler functions as a setting material, like glue or resin, to fix the fitting in the hole, correct?
In that case why remove the fitting after the epoxy had set?
Sikaflex functions as a watertight sealant at the top side of the deck , not as setting material to keep the fitting in place.
So the only thing that keeps the fitting down on the toe rail is the washer and nut?

Indeed I will wait with covering the opening in the cieling . Will find some solution but maybe not mat and resin as this fitting underside should be accessible

Makes sense the foam functions as a construction element as you have described. I haven't removed much of it and no other reinforcing material was harmed such as beams or fiberglass , other than the cieling which seems cosmetic rather than structural . So do I need to do anything else other than setting ( in epoxy?) , tightening and sealing the fitting?

Thanks

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Re: Ripped Genoa roller

Post by Jolly Roger » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:05 am

The epoxy acts to create a strong and load spreading base for the fitting. When epoxy filler sets it can shrink very slightly, so if you do not seal with a sealant it may leak. You will have to clean the grease off the epoxy fillerfor a good seal. Also working fron underneath, you may leave some small voids in the filler and these need to be filled. The Sikaflex acts as a flexible adhesive sealant, whereas the epoxy filler is adding strength to the structure of the deck.

Alternatively you can fill the hole completely and then drill and seal as normal. If you do this, you could from both above and below deck. If you put protective tape on the gel coat then the finishing before drilling would be minimal.

The nut and backing plate are the only parts holding the fitting in place. The loading on this fitting is sideways, so the hole through the deck is taking most of the loading.

The fibreglass covering layer was used to bond the deck and hull together, plus tidy up the inside and act as a watertight seal for the fittings. From your photographs, you do not seem to have damaged the hull deck joint. The portion of fibreglass removed would not be structural, so recovering with fibreglass is not essential.

There is nothing else you need to do, except pour a drink to celebrate a job well done.
Roger
Concerto Fulmar FR38
Photos at http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Conce ... 2/library/

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