Typhoon Rudder

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Brines
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Typhoon Rudder

Post by Brines » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:15 pm

Does any one have any experience of the makeup of a typhoon rudder? I have noticed over the past few years that mine has developed lumps on both sides and have resolved to investigate these this winter and rectify if possible, doesn't look like osmosis as the lumps are far larger. Any help, drawings or shared experience will be much appreciated.

Jolly Roger
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Re: Typhoon Rudder

Post by Jolly Roger » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:28 am

They are probably osmosis, or water has entered the laminate layup. First thing to try is drill into the base of the rudder to see if it is full of water. To check where the water is entering is easy, coat the rudder withn a soapy solution and then use a foot pump to force aire into the drilled hole, any escaping will form bubbles. If there is water then you will have to split the two halves of the rudder for repair as the water ingress is likely to be from inside. You will need to grind away the affected areas and relaminate, possibly from both sides. Any foam inside will need replacement with closed cell foam. Checking the bonding of the rudder tangs is also wise. When you fix the two halves back together it would be sensible to wrap the joint with some fibreglass matting and refare the rudder shape. Finally seal everything with epoxy coatings to seal it permanently.
Roger
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rhumlady
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Re: Typhoon Rudder

Post by rhumlady » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:35 pm

I would add a couple of things to the above. One place that seems to allow water ingress is where the post enters the rudder. If you do split the rudder then a large o ring on the shaft when making it back up may help. As Roger says the blisters are probably osmotic and I would try piercing one or two and seeing if you get the smell from them. I believe it smells of vinegar. You should also be careful when drilling the bottom of the rudder for obvious reasons.
Derek
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mikebuggy
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Re: Typhoon Rudder

Post by mikebuggy » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:11 am

One minor point. I may be wrong, but I understand that the Dubois designed boats (Corsair onwards) have a solid rudder. ie they are not simply foam filled casings. They are 2 solid halves bonded together over some very substantial steel-work. Large mole-hill type lumps are quite comon with this construction. Generally the rudders remain very stong despite them. Water inside the 2 halves is very common, and quite difficult to prevent. Most yards just grind out and repair the mole-hills. If there are severe problems, possibly with cracking, or movement of the stock, then splitting and rebuilding may be required, but this is relatively unusual.

Brines
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Re: Typhoon Rudder

Post by Brines » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:25 pm

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your replies. As a result I contacted Ed Dupois and he confirmed that the rudder is made of two separate mouldings assembled around the steelwork and encapsulated in GRP . This raises the question of exactly what are these mouldings made from and how are they assembled around the steelwork prior to encapsulation. Anyone any ideas? Ed also suggested getting a specialist GRP Surveyor be involved. I see many naughts in this but as I need a survey for insurance purposes now seems as good a time as any. Has anyone any suggestions re such a person in the Medway area?

Happy new year and good sailing to all

Brines

Brines
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Re: Typhoon Rudder

Post by Brines » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:19 pm

Just to wrap this up, had to drop the rudder as it was severely affected with osmosis after all and what a job that was. Aluminium, stainless and mild steel assembled with nothing between them, in the middle of the sugar scoop out of arms reach and with very resticted access. Eventually, managed to get it on a pallet beside the boat ready for Fox's to pick up to be split and reconstructed using modern materials. The solid mouldings previously mentioned appear to be some sort of plastic putty composition which they have to break out and replace with high density foam. The rudder blade had several layers of epoxy and coppercoat on it so I guessed water had got into it via the post and drilled a hole in the base prior to removing it from the boat. About half a pint of liquid drained out. Applying a drill to the blisters and then breaking them out showed that the original layup was very poor with dry mat showing in places and blisters at different depths in the original layup. Not a happy story!! Fox's promise photos so I'll post them when I get them along with a few I've taken to date.

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Re: Typhoon Rudder

Post by Eeyore » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:11 pm

Well, next time you are out in a blow, at least you now know where you stand and can be confident that the repaired rudder is now perfect. Its a job I may have to do on ours in the next few years .
Tempest Isabella TT6

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