Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

shaunherd
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Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by shaunherd » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:03 pm

Hi

Have just bought a westerly centaur,my first yacht, moored in Conyers Creek by the Swale.
If theres anyone out there nearby who could spare a few minutes to pop over and go over the
basic operation of the engine (MD11C) and if possible things like greasing the stuffing box
changing the impeller and filters etc in exchange for a pint or two would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
shaun

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by TyroSailor » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:05 pm

Hi Shaun

Congrats on you new Centaur. I bought one in the spring and am looking forward to sailing it too, once I get the problems sorted out! Strangely enough I considered mooring in the Swale, but settled on the Itchen (Southampton) to start with at least.

Mine has an MD2b, not the later MD11b, but they're very similar, I believe. It's that that's given most of the trouble, in fact, and is about to be replaced. (There's a whole thread about it somewhere!). Hope yours is in good nick! If you don't have one, you can download both the Owner's Manual and the Workshop Manual if someone can tell you how to do it.

The filters are easy, but I found it all a bit daunting at first, and I found someone to guide me through it was very helpful. I'd be happy to help (especially if there's a pint in the offing) but I live in Liverpool, the boat's in Southampton and I'm currently in Belgium! But you'll find lots of good and friendly advice and advisers on here. I think 'Uncle Albert' might be round your way.

Good luck!

PS - the relevant threads are
http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/woafor ... f=2&t=3229
http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/woafor ... f=2&t=3255
http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/woafor ... f=2&t=3265
but there are lots of others too :-)
Experience: That which would have been most useful five minutes before you acquired it.

Steve
Tyro (Centaur 1361)
at Southampton

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by shaunherd » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:25 pm

Hi steve

thanks for the reply, i live near brighton, boats in the Swale and im currently in germany so between us we cover quite a large area but nothing mutually close, however, advice given was helpful. Think like you said, its daunting at first but will soon get the hang on it. Its my first boat with an engine so thats my main concern as its not something i know much about and it is quite old but then its been chugging away for 35years so hopefully will keep going for many more. cheers

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by TyroSailor » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:46 pm

Hmmm. I don't want to frighten you but it seems that the fact that the engine's been running well for 35 years doesn't necessarily mean that it will carry on doing so. It's been used intermittently for short periods, with long periods of doing nothing, in a salt-laden environment and with the pipes full of salt water, sometimes hot. It's not a recipe for mechanical success.
Happily many of the problems can be surmounted by good practices. Use the proper oil, change it and the filters at the specified intervals; don't run it without a load; when you do run it, do so for at least half an hour, preferably an hour or more so it gets good and hot etc., etc.
With any luck, the previous owner(s) will have done this and it'll be OK. I thought mine was, but was sadly disappointed!
Anyway, I daresay yours will be fine and I'm just scaremongering! If your'e on the south coast there'll be plenty of others nearby who can help, and in the Swale/Thames area there'll be many other Westerlies around.
:-)
Experience: That which would have been most useful five minutes before you acquired it.

Steve
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at Southampton

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by Uncle Albert » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:09 pm

Welcome to the WOA forum.
There are too many MD2B/C beliefs that to have these engines means that we are 'All doomed'. :?

I maybe in a minority of 1 but I am a member of the MD2 appreciation society :D . Having achieved intimate first hand knowledge of its innards by replacing cylinder liners and pistons there is so little to go wrong and maintenance is simple.

See my started thread 'MD2C oil in water, how?' on the Engine category of the forum. These engines are old but they are heavily made and perhaps with the exception of the exhaust will take many, many years to rot away.................................. from the inside.

Just a couple of things. If it does not yet have one get a Speedy Seal impeller cover plate. Make changing this part so much easier.

Do not use expensive oil these engines have never known synthetic oils and need proper mineral oil of the correct SAE20 / 10W. (See workshop manual which can be downloaded from Volvo Penta website). I use Tescos/Asda/Halfords cheap diesel mineral oil.

Oil filters are cheaper from motor factor or Unipart (their number for my one is UGCGFE210).

Use the 'cold start button' for when the temp drops to below 10 degrees C. Makes for much better starting and gives the battery a fair chance.

They seem to like some hard work and I try to operate mine at between 1500/1800 RPM. Worse thing for them is hours at tick over.

Hope this helps

Unc CR1702
Uncle Albert
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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by shaunherd » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:57 pm

very very helpful thanks, i know the engine wont last forever but if i can get at least 2 or 3 years trouble free use out of it (hopefully more with good practice and a bit of luck) then ill be happy.

A couple of questions. When and for how long should i press the cold start button? for example before, during or after turning the key?

also, im sure i read something about after using the engine its good to switch off the seawater inlet seacock for about 30secs before stopping the engine in order to drain the engine so it doesnt have seawater sitting in it? is this a good thing to do?

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by TyroSailor » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:22 am

Not sure about these Qs: My MD2b has a cold start handle to pull out before you do all the rest of the start routine; it then goes in by itself. It operates a little lever somewhere near the injector pump but beyond that I couldn't tell you how it works. It may be different on the MD11c anyway.
Never heard of cutting off the water before stopping the engine. It would remove much of the water from the pipes, but replace it with damp air, and the impeller might be damaged by running it dry. You really don't want bits of impeller blade blocking up the pipes!

Uncle Albert seems to be the resident expert on this class of engine (tips cap in his direction) and is a mine of useful information. I certainly agree that they're solid, well made engines; they need to be to last 40 years in their environment. I was unlucky with mine in that several things went wrong with it soon after I bought the boat, and foolish in not spending money on a specialist engine survey before I did so.

My (original) exhaust manifold and elbow seem to be in good nick actually. Anyone want to buy them? Along with some/all the other bits?
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at Southampton

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by aquaplane » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:48 am

The cold start button on my MD11C needs to be pressed in before you turn over the engine. It's not a glow plug preheater like you get on some diesel engines, I think it's more like a choke you get on petrol engines, ie. it gives a rich mixture.

I need to have lots of throttle on to get the cold start button to latch in, and sometimes it doesn't stop in at the first try. It doesn't work if you don't use throttle. The button pops out automatically as I throttle back when the engine starts or as the revs build up if I'm not quick enough.

If it's your first try it may be worth leaving the sea water inlet closed so you don't flood the exhaust and get flow back to the exhaust ports through extended cranking, just make sure you open it when the engine starts.

Opening the de-compressor levers and getting a good speed on the flywheel before dropping one leaver can help a tired battery. As the first pot starts to help the other lever can be dropped, don't forget the cooling water!

First check every time I fire up the Quatro is head over the stern to see water coming out of the exhaust, even 2nd or 3rd start of the day.

When I first got my Centaur I experimented with hand cranking the engine to start it, first with a warm engine but then from cold. It can be done in an emergency but it is hard work, especially from cold.
Bob.
Centaur now sold. Boating from Tarbert.

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by shaunherd » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:20 am

great advice again thanks

a real newbie question here but what is the T position (all the way over) on the throttle lever for? hows it used?

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by Uncle Albert » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:35 pm

[img]
MDIIC Injection pump_opt.jpg
MDIIC Injection pump_opt.jpg (37.25 KiB) Viewed 2561 times
[/img]

The picture shows the cold start button.
Aquaplane was spot on with his response.

But I will 'Janet and John' describe my starting procedure (first start from cold) and this may help.

Open water inlet for engine
Switch batteries to chosen one
Set throttle arm in cockpit to about 1/3rd open with the gear disengage button pushed in (That's the red, or maybe pink one after all these years, in the middle of the throttle quadrant.
Lift cockpit grating
Lift engine cover
lower head into engine bay and press down the small ( about 5 pence coin diameter) spring loaded button located on top of injection pump See picture. DO NOT MOVE THROTTLE LEVER AS THIS WILL DISENGAGE COLD START.
Crank engine and it should burst into life.
You can now reduced throttle to give all the mechanicals a chance to get some oil.
Check water flow out of exhaust which should start being visible within 15-20 secs.

What the cold start button does in enable the injection pump shuttle to travel further and thereby let more fuel get to the cylinders to offer the chance of a bigger bang.

Hope this helps
Uncle Albert
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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by aquaplane » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:31 am

Not really the basics but I have done away with the faff of lifting the cockpit grating to get to the cold start button.

The button is not far off vertically below the engine panel at the front of the cockpit. I drilled a 7mm hole in the right hand corner of the engine panel recess and fitted a 12"-14" length of ¼" SS tube to the top of the button. The tube protrudes an inch or so and I can activate the cold start from the cockpit.

It's a bit of a lash up but it works. :D
Bob.
Centaur now sold. Boating from Tarbert.

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by Uncle Albert » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:56 pm

A similar job was on my list of things to do in 2008 when I got the boat.... Guess what never got round to it but I moan to myself every time I lift the grating and lid...... Lazy or what?? :oops: No need to answer :D
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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by shaunherd » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:35 pm

I'm sure after I've started her up a few times I'll wonder why it seemed so confusing but as a newbie the Janet and John approach really helps so thanks uncle Albert ... and if theres one thing I've definitely got the hang of it's adding to my list of things to do; one cold start modification coming up... soon-ish.

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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by shaunherd » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:58 am

they say you learn something everytime you go out

first trip out,
as a bit blowy and i was getting to know the boat decided to stick to jib only
and sail with the wind and tide one way then motor back
nice fast sail downwind, cup of tea, turn on engine and key snaps in the lock!
hand held anemometer now reading 23 to 34 knots!
cant go against wind and tide with just jib and
i wasnt sure that the 2 point slab reefing would be enough in such strong wind
phoned marina who thankfully came out with my spare key i keep there
however boat is moored in a longish creek with hour and half access either side of HW
and it was nearing that already so it was touch and go getting back in time
as you can see from the pic only just made it within inches of the pontoon

lessons: take spare key(s), learn how to hand crank the engine
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Re: Hi from New Owner/Engine advice?

Post by Jolly Roger » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:04 pm

Well done in nearly getting back in your berth. That learning curve is steep in the early days, but as you get more experienced it gets easier.

On that note. What is experience? Experience is something you gain whilst doing something else.

Experience has taught you, you need to know more about your engine, like how to hand start it (not available on modern engines :( ).

Do keep posting how you are progressing as it will encourage other potential owners that Westerly's are good boats to learn on. It will also make enjoyable reading in the future when you look back and see how much better you ave become.
Roger
Concerto Fulmar FR38
Photos at http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Conce ... 2/library/

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