MD2B - injector pump problem?

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MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by TyroSailor »

Hi all

Another problem with my Centaur engine I'm afraid :-(

Having fixed the starter, alternator and coolant leak, while testing the gearbox the engineer and I found that the engine stopped responding to the throttle. The linkage is fine. Ish. After opening it up it takes several seconds for the engine speed to increase when idling, and even longer, or not at all, when in gear. It idles very slowly - about 400 rpm - and is producing white smoke and oily soot. Yesterday it wouldn't start at all.

Someone said the injector pump is faulty. Anyone have the wisdom of experience to impart for a second opinion? All help greatly appreciated!
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by BrightStar »

I would start by checking the fuel filters and the lift pump, this does sound like a fuel starvation problem, possibly water in the fuel. I would change the filters, make sure that you get a good flow of clean fuel when you prime them, prime the fuel system and injectors. Make sure that the stop control is reset, engine out of gear and throttle free to move and try again.

Other obvious checks, is the fuel cock fully open, no kinks in the pipework, fuel in tank, drain off the bottom of the tank if you suspect water or gunge

The injector pumps are fairly bombproof but expensive to service / replace
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by TyroSailor »

Hmmm yes..... Thanks for this, Brightstar

Done all that in recent weeks but not since this latest problem started. I've cleaned out the fuel tank as well as I can with no access hatch and filtered the old fuel several times so it's as clear as a bell - and added mostly new stuff now. Filters are newish (it was serviced about 15 running hours ago) and I'm pretty sure there's no water in there.
Nevertheless, I'll go through the whole bleeding process (if you see what I mean) again before I try and take the injector pump off, as I've been quoted £130 plus parts to service it....
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by BrightStar »

I hope this finds your problem, do let us know
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by Vegable »

One of the beautys of the MD 2 engines is that they have a starting handle and valve lifters. You can lift the valves and turn the starting handle to easily turn over the engine. In this way you can bleed the fuel lines gently and progessively from the fine secondary filter and the lift pump to the injectors and see the fuel spurting out as you progress. If nothing comes out of the lines at the injector then you know where the problem lies.
Try moving the throttle linkage by hand actually on the engine itself and see what happens. "Someting" might just have come loose. There's a lot of fiddley bits and springs down there on the throttle linkage bits.
Good luck
Mike
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by TyroSailor »

Thanks, Mike.

We did the turning-over-by-hand-and-bleeding-the-fuel-lines bit a couple of weeks back when I thought the lift pump had given up - and it worked. Then the engineer operated the throttle control on the engine itself, and adjusted the linkages so that they all worked properly - still no response. However, I'm going back to the boat today and will try all that again before I grasp the nettle of the injector pump.

It's the excessive white smoke and oily soot that worries me. :shock:

There's a place at West Quay that specialises in injector pumps so I may have to take it there. If I can get it out. They charge specialist prices as well :(

I do wonder at times if I bought the right boat! At the moment it's an expensive and static caravan.

Steve
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by Vegable »

Hmmm getting stuck for ideas.
Thinking laterally, are the air filters clear? There isn't something blocking the air flow is there? - but that would mean both cylinders.
Other than this, at the moment I can't suggest anything more!
Did it come suddenly or did it get worse over a period of time.
If it was a petrol engine I'd suggest that the distributor has slipped and the timing has gone off, but I can't remember what controls the timing on the MD2 engines.
Hope something turns up tomorrow
Mike
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by TyroSailor »

Thanks again for thinking about this Mike.

I tried the engine first thing this morning; it started hesitantly first time, chucked out smoke and oily soot again for half a minute and then gave up again. It's chucking it down at the moment so I'm reluctant to lie down in the cockpit and start taking the engine apart but will have a go this afternoon if it clears up a bit.

This engine (all the MD series I think) has separate air filters for each cylinder. That would explain soot though....

On the credit side, I did spend a merry hour or three last night manufacturing connectors for the solar panels, so at least I can charge the battery. And in the process saving the £26.99 or whatever it was that Maplins wanted.
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by Vegable »

My thoughts on waking this morning was that the injectors themselves have got dirty and need resetting. I've never had to do it myself so don't know what the symptoms are. Any diesel workshop will clean and reset them for you.
There's a thread on the PBO site at the moment and a chap there experienced air being sucked passed the jubilee clips on the injector hoses which gave him similar problems. (Are symtoms of a fuel pump giving up slow or sudden - is the topic. Sorry but don't know how to transfer websites using my tablet :oops: )
Its miserable here in Wales too!
Mike

Re-reading your first post, you haven't disturbed a lump of something have you when you cleared out the diesel tank and that is lifting and falling as the fuel demand increases or lowers hence blocking a pipe somewhere? It might be worth checking that you have a free flow of fuel right up to the output of the secodary filter. However I bet you've already checked that.
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by TyroSailor »

It rained ALL day on Friday but yesterday was warm and sunny. Just as I was starting another Centaur owner came along and offered to help :-)

We (well, mostly I with his supervision and advice) went through the whole system again from tank to injectors, checking both filters (very clean and obviously new) and bleeding every union and bleed screw. The lift pump works too. Fuel did come out of the injector nuts, so at least some fuel is getting through to them, but I have no way of knowing if it's the right volume or at the right time and pressure. So it has to be either the injector pump or the injectors themselves.

After we'd finished we started her up and she ran! Out of gear it produced a lot of white smoke, oil and soot from the exhaust and picked up speed slowly when the throttle was opened. In gear the exhaust was cleaner but it wouldn't pick up at all. These symptoms are the same as before.

I've come back to civilisation to do some research (and escape the awful f/c weather).
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by philipstevens »

I've read all you have tried, and can only come up with another suggestion.

If you remove the outlet of the lift pump, can you pump against your finger covering the outlet, and get a spray?

I ask this as I was with friends in France years ago when they had the same sort of problem. Their problem turned out to be a split diaphragm in the lift pump, although we could get fuel through to the injectors, there was no real pressure. A new diaphragm was fitted, although that model of pump had been discontinued, the French engineer just happened to have a new one.

They could not even get the engine to start, and we had to tow them to the nearest marina in the Rance.
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by TyroSailor »

That's a thought. Thanks. I'll try that when go back to the boat (which'll be a couple of weeks now). A new diaphragm (or indeed a new diagram, which is what I typed the first time) isn't tooo expensive. If that's what the problem is and if I can find one.

By the way, I forgot to mention before that I checked the air filters, which were clear. I was astonished to find that they were just a metal grid - obviously not a very fine filter. There's also a short pipe coming off the after one to/from what I imagine is the 'breather' at the port after corner of the engine. It's a loose fit and has no hose clip on it....???
Last edited by TyroSailor on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by Vegable »

Well I'm afraid I've just about run out of ideas however I have one last thought to add to your sum of misery based on your exhaust, and that is, you've not got a blown head gasket have you? Have a look at your oil using the dip stick. If its frothy or a bit like mayonaise or decidedly opaque as in gungey rather than just dirty black than that might be your problem. A lack of compression and a slow rate of pickup together with mucky bits in the exhaust.
If that's ok and Phillip's idea is ok, then without getting hands on your engine I'm afraid I 've reached the limit of my expertise at long distance.
I wish you the best of luck 'cos it's about time you got some, and keep us informed when you eventually find the cause.
If it is the gasket btw, then they are easy to replace by yourself however the cost of a headgasket is horrendous for what it is. I assume you've got a copy of the workshop manual. You can easily download it from the internet. Just type in MD2B workshop manual into Google.
Best regards
Mike
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by TyroSailor »

Hmmm.... I didn't like the look of the oil when I had a look yesterday - a bit greyish and more than I thought there should have been - that could be caused by water in it, which would fit with a head gasket :-(
I have the workshop manual downloaded thanks, but most of it seems like gobbledegook to me. A mechanic thinks it's the injector pump......
A week or two of research I think, before I go back.
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Re: MD2B - injector pump problem?

Post by Uncle Albert »

If you do go down the head Gasket route. Opt for the full gasket set it worked out cheaper than buying individual parts. I got a fair deal for many parts for my MD2 from Volspec in Tollesbury. (No connection other than spent lots of money with them a couple of years ago :? . new pistons liners and stuff)
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