Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

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Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by rogerball0 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:24 pm

I posted this earlier this evening on ybw.com thinking i'd receive a plethora of ideas and suggestions and as at time of posting this have got nothing.

Basically I'm ready to fit my Sole Mini 29, i plan to get the steel rails - that it will sit on - fitted Tuesday and then its time, working from the aft end forward fitting everything into the engine bay.

The engine is now over six years old its never been fitted or fired up so my first question is what needs checking before fitting?, I pulled the dipsticks on the gearbox and engine and the oil is crystal clear in both, should i change it?

Also the impeller hasn't moved either so should that be changed too?

I want to clean the engine as although its been boxed there's about an 1/8 of an inch of dust all over it, is it as simple as taping up all the inlets and outlets,electrical harness & alternator and then pressure washing it to within an inch of its life? Any problems doing this?

Regarding the compartment the fuel and water inlets are on the port side of the engine so was gonna place both filters up high on the port side of the compartment although the calorifier connections are on starboard so i was gonna route these around the back of the engine to the calorifier that will sit next door in a locker.

My list so far of what needs fitting (going from the stern) is:

Exhaust system, Cockpit drains, Fuel tank, Bilge Pump (under engine in boats sump), the engine , then fuel and water systems (up high - forward), is there anything i've missed?

I need to get a solid gas pipe from the gas locker to the galley are there any do's and don'ts about routing it through this compartment?

Also should i insulate the compartment?, Any recommendations as my compartment is now one long tunnel is it wise to go right to the stern or just insulate immediately around where the engine is situated and do the inside of the companionway steps?

Not for the first time i'm trying to cover off everything as it will be a pain to fit anything once the engines in and aligned although it could come out if it had to i'd like to do this job once.

Cheers in advance

Roger

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by ndt228 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:23 pm

Well here's something to show someone's looking. I have been reading these threads for some time, so whilst I have never done what you are about too, I've picked up a bit.
1) Change your impellor. Its not worth the risk that it might have become "tired". Scare stories of breaking up and shedding bits into your coolant channels abound.
2) Insulation: Its not just for heat, also for sound (perhaps more important). It will also stop panels vibrating like drumskins. Surely much easier done before than after engine installation ?
3) Oil - is probably ok as it has never been "used"
4) Washing - easiest to take the alternator off than to try to tape up all its orifices, I'd think. Perhaps avoid pressure washing ? Give the dust etc a good soaking (30 mins) with detergent-rich hot water, then just hose off. Pressure washing risks sqirting water where you don't expect it - eg down the oil dipstick pipe,or some vent you didn't know was there (eg on gearbox ? - or past a shaft oil-seal.
5) Gas pipe: Suggest you put it where it can be seen/inspected easily, rather than hiding behind engine. Make sure nothing hard can rest on it - vibration can cut through over time. There are doubtless regulations - these may dictate fixing intervals, style, grade of pipe etc etc. Will your insurers expect you to get a gas safety certificate ?

Hope that is of some help, but can't advise re filters etc except that the raw water intake must be readily accessible for clearing weed or whatever. You need good access to change the impellor in future, and some folks advise replacing screw/bolt fixings with (eg) studs.
Nick

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by rogerball0 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:32 pm

cheers nick

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by aquaplane » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:59 am

Not sure about jet washing an engine.

I got roped in to cleaning a steam engine by an enthusiastic teacher as a school boy and we used an oil/paraffin mix and paint brushes. That was to remove oil/grease/crud though not GRP workshop dust. It may seem counterintuitive but leaving a thin film of oil coating an engine will be better for the engine than having it "clean" so that it can rust at the speed of light..
Bob.
Centaur now sold. Boating from Tarbert.

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by Jolly Roger » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:33 am

Definitely agree with changing the impeller as over time this would have gone slightly brittle and misformed.

The engine oil should be fine, but would suggest changing the oil and filter after the engine has run 10 to 20 hours. This will remove any small metal particles and moisture.

It might be worth trying to turn the engine over by hand. You will need to use a decompression lever or slacken the injectors. This should help to pass oil through the engine before you try putting it under load with a mechanical start. As the engine has been sitting for so long it is just a sensible thing to do to ensure it is fully lubricated.

Certainly agree about fitting new sound proofing. It can be quite expensive and wasteful to buy. Chatting on the Beta stand at the show, they are able to supply pieces cut to size as they use a lot and can then be more effective in how the sheets are cut. Most insulation is to the sides, top and front. The aft end usually is not insulated as that faces away from the living area. Also adding anything across the aft end of the engine might cause more problems of access in the future. Also when working on the engine you will find it so much cleaner and lighter there.

As to cleaning the engine I would start by using a paintbrush with a vacuum nozzle alongside. Most of the crud should be able to be cleaned this way and it is far easier than most. I would be slightly concerned about the amount of dust that might have entered the starter motor and alternator. Dust can cause short circuits. So it may be worth stripping both down to clean. I doubt if you will need to wash the engine as it would have been virtually oil free externally, so the dust should brush off.

With the filters, would it be worth fitting a dual filters so a quick switch over can be made in case of any problems. Certainly a lot easier to do now than later. Fitting the calorifier in a locker is not a problem, that is where I shall be installing mine in my Fulmar.

One small extra that might be worth fitting is a light in the engine compartment. Site it towards the back of the engine so you can also illuminate the gearbox and stern gear.

Not being familiar with the exact layout of the Centaur, I would suggest if possible to route the gas pipe outside the engine compartment.

Once you are back in the water, do not forget to recheck the alignment of the engine as there may be a slight variation in hull shape once back in it's normal environment.

Just out of interest, when do you expect to launch?
Roger
Concerto Fulmar FR38
Photos at http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Conce ... 2/library/

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by rogerball0 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:11 pm

AP and JR cheers for taking the time.

Okay so maybe give jet washing a miss; hoover then wash with hot water.

Gas; route outside engine compartment, cool.

Sound insulation; i think i will insulate the front of the compartment and upto the thrust bulkhead where the stern gear is and do the underside of the cockpit access hatch, that'll save some money on doing the whole compartment.

A couple of others have suggested turning the engine over by hand to move oil about inside so will read the manual and give it a go this week.

I have a compressed air system so will put engine on hoist and blow out everything including alternator as well as engine.

I asked on ybw.com if anyone has a schematic of a fuel system as i will be running two tanks, dual filters, i want to be able to isolate and also prime with a bulb and dont have a clue how to go about building such a system so if anyone can point me in the direction of a web site i'd be very grateful.

thanks for the replies.

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by Jolly Roger » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:57 pm

rogerball0 wrote:I asked on ybw.com if anyone has a schematic of a fuel system as i will be running two tanks, dual filters, i want to be able to isolate and also prime with a bulb and dont have a clue how to go about building such a system so if anyone can point me in the direction of a web site i'd be very grateful.
Personally I would have a word with ASAP Supplies Ltd, http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/fuel-systems. They should be able to give clear advice and a list of components you will need.
Roger
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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by aquaplane » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:26 pm

I can't post on YBW but to answer some of your questions on there:

Sound insulation: The foam/lead combination is the stuff to use, I don't have it but that's what I'm told. You need to line the whole of the engine bay with no gaps. When I do mine it will be behind the steps and the bridge deck bits, all the way up the insides of the quarter berths and the whole of the cockpit sole. You could save on foam by putting a false bulkhead in at the back of the cockpit hatch but that would restrict access to the stuffing box and I wouldn't want to do that. I have the original Volvo engine and it is noisy, a newer engine may not be as bad but I would still insulate the engine bay before instlling the engine.

You may be able to get a bigger tank in the existing space if you extend it sideways to use all the width of the engine compartment instead of just the width of the engine bearers, how you would get a bigger tank in would be worth thinking about first though, I presume the old one went in either through the cockpit sole hatch or from the front before the engine went in.

I have bunged up the limber hole between my engine bilge and the rest of the boat. I have got the rest of the boat bilge oil free and dry. Not so the engine bilge. My lockers are all dry and I certaimly wouldn't want bilge water in with clothes, bedding or food, why did you drill holes? I sometimes get a little water local to the toilet seacocks but that is either from leaks of water bottles under the galley sink or possibly from the anchor locker, it doesn't get to the main bilge and certainly not into other lockers.

Cetainly get some oil moving by hand cranking, that's a good, no cost, easy, quick, idea.

Good ideas about fuel systems on the YBW thread. I would suggest keeping everything accessible from the steps, it's a pain having to hang upside down in the cockpit to change the water pump impeller on my MD11C and I'm not relishing changing the fuel filter and bleeding the system either.

:)
Bob.
Centaur now sold. Boating from Tarbert.

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by rogerball0 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:21 pm

Hi bob the back end of mines completely different to std Centaur, i drilled holes at the lowest point of each cockpit locker to drain into the engine compartment, everything kept separate to the boat, plus theres no bilge in my boat anymore as i infilled with foam, epoxy and PU adhesive.

I have an osculati 43 litre PE tank fitted in behind the engine and an additional 55 litre fuel tank fitted along with an additional 55 litre water tank both PE on the boats starboard side to counterbalance the battery bank going in to port. All these tanks are around a 100 quid each so way cheaper than S/S

Still waiting on paint to dry, spent the weekend and today painting everything out but the paint was so thick i thinned it with acetone and now have a bit of solvent entrapment so gonna whack the heaters in the space to try and burn it off then go back to my tried and trusted Regal paints 2K epoxy floor paint as its thinner straight out the can yet has better opacity than the stuff i'm using at present which curiously is like treacle yet blotchy as hell despite mixing with drill-powered stirrer.

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by aquaplane » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:49 pm

Acetone and electric heaters aren't a good idea unless you want a good fire!
Bob.
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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by aquaplane » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:00 pm

While you have a blank canvas, sort of, I would think about trim.
We get puddles in the front end of the cockpit seats which I find a pain. This year I noticed that when at anchor with lots of the chain out (20m of 35m) we didn't get the puddles.
The water tank near the stern and the extra fuel tankage may cure the puddles problem but against that I presume your engine will be lighter than the Volvo I have so on balance you may be back at square one.
Bob.
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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by rogerball0 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:58 pm

Sorry JR forgot to say launching sometime 2016, i have to; its a long story!

A few pictures to help explain:

Image

This where the extra tanks will go.

Image

This is the engines new compartment, paint still tacky, and worrying me now.

Image

The whole arrangement, including where the batteries, electrics and vhf gubbins will go, (behind the foam composite bulkhead), have just come in for a bite to eat then back out to laminate the sofa base to the hull and new bulkheads. AP; Yes bringing a lot of weight aft of midships should help her trim a bit better, still thinking of putting drains in each corner of the cockpit so any water gets drained.

cheers roger

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by rhumlady » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:49 pm

I found when I insulated the engine compartment prior to ripping everything out I found that some areas such as above the flywheel I had to cut the insulation down to stop it rubbing. Once I get round to doing work back in the engine area, in fact once I get back to working on the boat full stop, I will fit the engine and then the insulation to suit. I have put a bulkhead at the aft end of the engine where it passes under the cockpit and will be putting forced ventilation in place.
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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by rogerball0 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:35 pm

Did think about taking the thrust bulkhead upto the cockpit floor and fitting a bloody great hatch above the fuel tank but would've created morework so have left as is and seeing as there's no qtr berths any more the noise wont be a problem.

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Re: Centaur Engine Compartment, help required.

Post by Uncle Albert » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:00 pm

Hi Roger just a thought given the level of rebuilding you are doing and quality of craftsmenship you achieve. Don't forget the engine needs to breath. Air needs to get in there. I have absolutely no idea how the air gets into my engine bay but the old original MD2C does not get starved when in use.

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