Ageing a Fulmar

bill_in_london
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Ageing a Fulmar

Post by bill_in_london »

I am looking at an 87 Fulmar as a first boat. Unfortunately there appears to be no original documentation such as bill of sale or builders certificate. There is a yard number of 242 on the SSR, but the sellers cannot locate a hull identification number on the transom.

So I wonder if anyone has any ideas on how to verify the age of the boat or the location of the hull identification number ( which I assume includes the year ).

Also I would welcome opinions on the advisability of buying a boat with no original documentation like this. It seems somewhat uncomfortable to me.

Many thanks
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Bertgear »

My Fulmar also doesn't have the number on the transom, but it does have a stamped number on the Westerly plate attached to the mast post in saloon, from memory I think it starts SO (for I believe is Southampton ) and ends with 85 for an 1985 build
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by ndt228 »

Surely it is the general condition of the boat that counts most ?
If you refer to the Westerly type guide: http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/guides_5.php you will see a few points in the lifetime of the Fulmar where changes were made. These should enable you to place the boat into early, middle or late phase build periods. She could in any event have been modified by a previous owner, or the original purchasor could have specified certain bespoke details. To my mind a mid-80's boat could have had a hard or a soft life, been well maintained or poorly so. None of this will be shown by a yard certificate. Save your efforts for a thorough survey of hull, spars, rigging and engine.
You could also try Trafalgar with details from the Westerly plate - they might have had prior involvement.
All the best, Nick
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by TrafalgarYachts »

The yard number 242 does not make sense as not even the last Fulmars had such a high yard number. If it was sail number 242 that would make it only an '84 boat. I am surprised there is no builder's plate over the main companionway which would show the yard number, but if you look on the back of lockers/drawers you might see a handwritten number. The yard number is also stamped on the bottom of the transom, but this is often covered by antifouling.
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Jolly Roger »

Bill

If you want any advice on particular Fulmars that are currently for sale, I have probably either seen them or checked out their details as I recently bought a Fulmar. Private message me with the details and I am happy to advise what to look for and a guide to what you should pay.

I know that Yachtsnet are just about to have 2 Fulmars on their books, so keep an eye on their site or contact them now. From my personal dealings with them you will get straight honest advice, even though I did loose out on buying a Fulmar from them.
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by bill_in_london »

Hello all

Many thanks for the replies. I have since discovered the lloyds number embossed on the transom which confirms the boat as being laid up in 1984 and have sadly withdrawn from the purchase. Good point well made by Nick but the boat was something of a project already so the year was quite important to me. It turns out the what was thought to be the yard number of 242 was in fact the sail number which corresponds with Caroline's post. Can't recommend Trafalgar Services enough by the way, very helpful when I called up. I am glad I did a bit of due diligence before shelling out for a surveyor, having been bitten like that before with a previous attempted boat purchase . (A very obvious problem which I did not need to pay an expert to discover).

So I will keep looking.

Cheers

William
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by rhumlady »

I don't really understand why you would discount an 84 boat over an 87 one. As Nick said above it is the condition of the boat that really matters not the age. One from say the first dozen could be by far and away better than one of the last dozen. We are not talking cars here.
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Bertgear »

Just for information as stated in my previous post, my Fulmar doesn't have a, H I N on the transon, nor does it have the build number at bottom of transon.
The H I N is on the builders plate on the mast post and the build number at the lower edge of the companionway in the cockpit, almost hidden by the cockpit grating
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Fulmar433 »

My 1991 Fulmar has a hull number of M192 which tends to contradict some of the assumptions quoted here. It is on the lower edge of the transom and the two builders plates in the boat. Just inside the companion way and on the mast post. It also appears on the back of various panels throughout the boat.

I have the original documentation, builder certificate, bill off sale etc. quoting the sail number 433 and yard number M192 and built at Waterloovile. It was delivered in February 1991. M192 and 1991 don't seem to be related as previously suggested. This ties in with what Caroline says about the late hull numbers. As far as I know only two Fulmar 32s were built after this one. I guess there must have been two moulds, one for bilge and one for fin keel models and two sets of hull numbers, which may imply a few more fin keel boats were built than bilge. That's just a guess though.
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Jolly Roger »

David

I think the M192 relates to the number of the boat out of shed M, and has no relation to the sail number. My own Fulmar has a number starting with a L.

On my Fulmar I have only just found the Lloyds number and build number moulded on the transom, they were covered in layers of paint with not even a slight indentation to show where they were.

No doubt someone else will be able to give more details than I know.
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Bertgear »

David don't think anyone was implying the yard no was anything to do with the year, in my case M134 sail 281
you may be getting confused with the hull identification no. which has the year of manufacture in the last two digits,in my case SOU410685 = 1985
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Fulmar433 »

Bert, Apologies, I obviously misread what was meant. I must have a look and see what Hull Identification number is on my boat.
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Fulmar433 »

Just dug my paper work out and my Hull Identification Number is SOU610290. The number obviously indicates when the hull was moulded rather than completion, as my boat was delivered February 1991.
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by bill_in_london »

Thanks to all who responded on this. As a postscript, the MCA returned my SSR cert without what I assumed to be my hull number (L185). This is apparently not the official international 14 digit number which manufacturers applied as from the, early 90s. I do understand this to be the Westerly identification number though. Could this get any more complicated? :smile:
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Re: Ageing a Fulmar

Post by Jolly Roger »

William

The L185 is hull 185 built in shed L and has no relation to the hull number. You should find the L185 moulded into the bottom edge of the transom and written on the underside of some of the interior woodwork.

The hull number can be found either on the Westerly plate on the main bulkhead or moulded into the top right corner of the transom.

That is where mine are located and Concerto was built in 1981, so I expect yours to be the same.

Interestingly when I stripped the multiple layers of red paint from the transom, I discovered both moulded numbers - but the hull number still had the Dymo label used to mould it into the hull.

Hope this helps.
Roger
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