Page 1 of 2

Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:09 pm
by 1340fxd
I am buying my first Westerly, having learned to sail on a club Sealord many years ago, I am now buying a Regatta 290. The berth I have for her is a deep-water swinging mooring in Keyhaven, just allocated to me after many years on the waiting list. Imagine my surprise when speaking to N&G about insurance when they said I would have to keep here out of the water or elsewhere for seven months of the year (1 Oct to 30 April). I sail all year round so chocolate teapot springs to mind. :shock:

Do any members moor at Keyhaven or otherwise know of more realistically minded insurers please? Any ideas would be helpful

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:16 pm
by steve parry
Hi,

It sounds strange to that N&G are saying this, it is a bit of an open harbour Keyhaven and open to SW gales but if you want to keep your yacht on the mooring for 12 months of the year then they would charge the appropriate monies to cover the winter months. The mooring you have is it regularly serviced each year and a good secure mooring?

Perhaps N&G have an issue with the moorings laid in Keyhaven, I would speak to the mooring provider and other users in the area, before going back to N&G for a quote.

Regards

Steve - WALKABOUT

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:49 pm
by Nigel Birch

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:55 pm
by 1340fxd
The swinging moorings in Keyhaven are laid and checked under the watchful eye of the river warden. While I can accept that some insurers may want to limit winter use, the N&G exclusion between 1 Oct to 30 April is simply useless IMHO. Anyway I have found insurers who will cover me for 365 days in commission so problem solved.

I had wanted to support the WOA insurance scheme but looks like that is not possible in my case. :oops:

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:31 pm
by steve parry
HI,
NG are normally very good that's why I said it was very strange. However, you have solved the problem and it will be NG loss as far I am concerned.

Regards

Steve Parry - WALKABOUT

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:41 pm
by TyroSailor
GJW (based in Liverpool) agreed to cover me for sailing throughout the year at no extra cost. They are currently insisting on no single-handed sailing at night, which is not unreasonable but I may be able to persuade them out of that at some stage if it becomes necessary.

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:20 pm
by JohnBrand
I've been with N&G for 5 years and was just about to renew when I noticed a new endorsement:

Endorsement No 43 Supervision Required
The Vessel must be in a secure Marina when unattended for any period in excess of 24 hours

This is a showstopper for me, and I guess for most cruising sailors who often like to leave their boat for a couple of days to go exploring. It doesn't work because:
    • in Scandinavia, where I've been cruising for the last couple of years, there are few 'secure' marinas - most places are small harbours, with a harbourmaster who visits morning and evening mainly to collect fees. Same in northern Scotland and the east coast of Ireland.

      there is no 'security' - most berths and box-mooring pontoons are open to the public, because there's virtually no crime

      my home port is Holy Loch, where I have a professionally serviced mooring three hours from home in Edinburgh. I certainly can't visit the boat every day
N & G tell me that this is a normal endorsement which should have been on the policy for the last 5 years. Has anyone else seen it? They say they have spoken to underwriters and can't move at all.

It's a pity, because I've been happy with N&G. However, I'm now looking for an alternative. Topsail - who give 10% discount to Cruising Association members - seem to tick all the right boxes.

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:11 pm
by Fulmar433
I have just checked my current policy and there is no mention of Endorsement 43. The policy clearly gives the location of my mooring as Lower Halstow Yacht Club, where all moorings are swinging. I wonder how they could put such an endorsement with a specified mooring location. When I took out the policy 18months ago I asked if they wanted the laid up location and was told that there was no required laid up period as I had on my previous policy. Strangely, my previous policy was with N&G but through a broker.
If this endorsement appears across the board, there must be quite a high proportion of Westerly's not moored in Marinas that will be looking for alternative insurance companies. I assume the WOA negotiated the current terms with N&G, maybe there needs to be further discussions, before one of the main attractions of WOA membership disappears for many members.

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:15 pm
by Willhc
I don’t have this endorsement on mine. Is it because you are abroad?

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:50 am
by BrightStar
I have checked my policy and I also do not have this endorsement

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:58 pm
by UserError
I found that N&G were about £20 more (nearly 20%) than GJW for broadly similar cover AFAICT.

I also found that the 'preferential terms' offered by whoever does the GP14 CA insurance still were more expensive than GJW & Bishop Skinner.

It would seem that CA insurance tie-ins are not necessarily a good deal. I need to look at any special 'owners' benefits to see what they amount to.

I went with N&G but will review carefully next year as I'll have more time.

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:27 pm
by 1340fxd
Can I ask if anyone in WOA actively manages the "relationship" with N&G? If not then I would not be surprised if any "benefits" had not been eroded by time. As a recently retired WOA member who used to work in the insurance industry in the City of London, I would be delighted to help anyone in the WOA who has taken on responsibility for the members scheme.

I imagine a large proportion of the WOA membership keep their cherished yachts on swinging moorings and piles with many on drying berths and in many different locations. My experience is that N&G and some other insurers when it comes to yachts not cosseted in a marina berth really don't like particular locations (Keyhaven in my case) because they don't know anything about that specific mooring area.

The other aspect is that I suspect Westerly owners really care for their yachts and that rather like classic car insurance, the premiums should be significantly lower because of the careful-owner risk profile.

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:12 pm
by BrightStar
Sounds like something worth doing if it isn't already, I wonder how many insure through the scheme

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:05 pm
by splitpin
On renewing my policy with N&G last year I was sent the Yacht and Motorboat Policy Document 2016 in which on page 28 'Exclusions which apply to the whole of this policy' it states in paragraph 9 that “ the vessel being stranded, sunk, swamped or breaking adrift whilst unattended except on a recognised mooring”.
Sadly it does not say what a recognised mooring is. Could it be a Sailing club mooring, Harbour masters mooring, Conservancy mooring, Marina berth, Boat yard mooring, Private mooring. Most ambiguous !!
Looking back at an old version in 2009 of this document it states the same but ending “ except on a recognised mooring or anchorage”.
We enjoy anchoring in such places as Newtown Creek and rowing ashore for a while but all the time we are away from our boat we are presumably uninsured.
What do we all do now, find another insurer for WOA members or perhaps N&G can clarify this.

Re: Navigators & General WOA scheme

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:50 pm
by 1340fxd
I believe that the WOA / N&G relationship is likely to be of greater value if it is managed. Is there a WOA member who owns this to anyone's knowledge?