Hello from new member.

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Dlange
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Hello from new member.

Post by Dlange » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:18 pm

Hello everyone, I have just become a member and look forward to posting on here and learning a lot from you guys.
I have the chance of purchasing a 1971 Westerly Centaur with an A layout at an asking price of £4200, it is fitted with a 2004 20hp Beta engine, standing rigging renewed 2007 plus it has all the usual Nav and safety equipment.
There was a survey carried out in 2012 which revealed some osmosis of the hull. The boat has been on the hard for around a year and I am not able to see any problems with the hull for myself.
It also has the original boom roller reefing which I would change to slab and lazy jacks and have all the lines leading aft to the cockpit for ease of single handed sailing.
What do people think about this Westerly, is it a good one to go with or keep well away? Should I also get a new survey done?
Many thanks for any input.
David.

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Nigel Birch
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Nigel Birch » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:46 pm

Welcome to the Forum!

It would be interesting to know what was said about the osmosis in the survey.
Last edited by Nigel Birch on Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Dlange » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:58 pm

Hello Nigel, Here is a brief summary of the survey. Several clusters of blisters were apparent the largest measuring approximately 9mm in diameter. These presented in groups of 40-50 in number at the following locations: Both port and starboard forward quarters, to areas forward of each bilge keel stub and aft of the keel stubs, plus an area to the starboard aft quarter. It should be stated that as previously mentioned, the hull was coated with an epoxy paint system, these coverings are commonly 3-4 microns in thickness therefore further blisters could be present below this system that were not or could not be detected during my inspection. A number of the blisters were punctured and it was noted that they bore fluid. The fluid was tested by means of a standard Litmus paper and an acid reaction was noted, this being associated and attributed to an osmotic condition.

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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Nigel Birch » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:44 pm

This is worth a read:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/osmosis.htm

"If you are looking to buy a small - 20 to 30 foot or so - boat at relatively low cost you will inevitably be looking at boats of 20 or more years of age. It is almost inevitable that most of these will have either highish moisture levels in the hull, or have some blisters. Even if blisters are not obvious when you look at the boat yourself, once a surveyor has scraped off antifouling in patches it is likely that he will find tiny beginnings of blisters - "baby blisters" as one surveyor describes them. You can go through a lot of expensive surveys, rejecting boats, before you find the rare one that has a perfect hull."

So at that price I think I'd probably go for it.....

all the best

Nigel
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Jolly Roger » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:36 pm

Dlange

Welcome to the Westerly Owners Forum.

The Centaur sounds about right for a boat of that age. First thing you should know is no boat has ever sunk because of osmosis. Secondly osmosis is treatable. Thirdly the Centaur hull is far thicker layup than modern boats, so more resistant to some loss of thickness. So negociate a price that you are happy with, get your own survey and become a PBO (poor bloody owner :) ).
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Nigel Birch » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:40 pm

I'm not sure I'd bother with another survey if he has one from 2012.... bound to be at least £500....
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Jolly Roger » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:52 pm

Technically the survey is copyrighted by the surveyor with the payer of the survey given permission to use it for his own benefit, not others. With a new survey you may get different opinions on many aspects of the overall condition and these can be used in negociations. If Dlange finds a local surveyor who can do that survey for a lot less than £500.
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by aquaplane » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:35 am

A survey on a £4K boat?
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Uncle Albert » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:03 pm

I doubt that you are buying it as ...................an investment. Surely you are buying it for enjoyment !!!!

As has been said the layup on Westerlies is really substantial and therefore unlikely to be a safety liability.

If the rest of it is up together, and there is no readily identifiable big costs looming, then at that price it is 'a buy it, keep it for 5 -10 years then dispose of for what you can get' it wont owe you anything and you will have some fun on the water.

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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Vegable » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:57 am

Wecome to WOA and to the forum. There are a lot of us on here with a wealth of knowledge and feel free to return with any questions and concerns you have as someone will have an answer for you.
Should you buy this boat is a question only you can answer in reality. What has to be asked is what do you know about boats? What practical skills do you have? And is anything special about this boat compared with other Centaurs as there are lots of Centaurs for sale and if you say no to this one another one will pop up very soon.
If you are practical then you can easily deal with the osmosis blisters yourself. What is more important is the structural integrity of the boat. If you know about boats you can easily survey the boat yourself. If you're not that confident ask a friend, local sailing club member, or even ask on the forum for someone local to have a look for/with you. Ask around the boatyard ie one of the employees about the boat. You are only paying £4 so getting another full survey done which will add another 12% to the cost is going to far, but you do want to be able to sell the boat when you move up to a larger boat.
What might be more important is the state of the engine and the sails. Replacing the engine could cost the price of the boat again! And new sails about half that. Sails should be crisp to the touch not feel like a floppy wash flannel. If you can turn the flywheel of the engine by hand all the way round - a complete revolution, forget about it. Get someone to start and run it for you and look at the smoke. Blue smoke a no no, black smoke only on starting, white smoke ok on damp days and should dissappear on dry days. If the boat is ashore then you'll have to fit a hosepipe to the engine water intake to run it.
Best of luck
Mike
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by rogerball0 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:18 pm

Dlange wrote:Hello everyone, I have just become a member and look forward to posting on here and learning a lot from you guys.
I have the chance of purchasing a 1971 Westerly Centaur with an A layout at an asking price of £4200, it is fitted with a 2004 20hp Beta engine, standing rigging renewed 2007 plus it has all the usual Nav and safety equipment.
There was a survey carried out in 2012 which revealed some osmosis of the hull. The boat has been on the hard for around a year and I am not able to see any problems with the hull for myself.
It also has the original boom roller reefing which I would change to slab and lazy jacks and have all the lines leading aft to the cockpit for ease of single handed sailing.
What do people think about this Westerly, is it a good one to go with or keep well away? Should I also get a new survey done?
Many thanks for any input.
David.
1971 Westerly Centaur you say? Wise choice sir, forget about the osmosis, nothing to worry about other than cosmetic in a boat of that age and a bit of extra ballast in the hull.

Lazy jacks and lines led aft, cracking idea!

As mentioned dont worry about another survey, common sense and mark one eyeball will suffice at this price point or indeed posting any queries here.

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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by TyroSailor » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:21 pm

Get hold of a copy of Inspecting the Aging Sailboat. I wish I'd read it before I bought my Centaur! It tells you exactly what to look for and how.
Experience: That which would have been most useful five minutes before you acquired it.

Steve
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at Southampton

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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by Nigel Birch » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:08 pm

and watch "towed in the hole" everything you need to know

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmTqquhstEQ
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Re: Hello from new member.

Post by TyroSailor » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:40 am

Maybe I should use that technique next time I want to get the mast down.
Experience: That which would have been most useful five minutes before you acquired it.

Steve
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